Federal Reserve Bank, mother monopoly/conspiracy fact

[steve74baywin]

To me the biggest problem, the worst monopoly for this country is the private stock holder owned Federal Reserve Bank.
Common sense of my own would tell me that if you let the control of a nations bank go central, private, and then remove it's backing, you are giving them incredibly power at the expense of everyone else. The people and the country borrow money with interest from international bankers. Even the bible say "the borrower is a slave to the lender" (Proverbs 22:7"

Alexander Hamilton wanted a Central Bank, others warned against it.
Thomas Jefferson said "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."
I think it very interesting that Alexander Hamilton who wanted a strong central bank also served in the army against the tax revolt of western farmers in the 1794 Whiskey Rebellion, so soon after the revolution war he is now fighting humans over here, and then in 1798, Hamilton called for mobilization against France after the XYZ Affair, good thing John Adams found a diplomatic solution.
Hamilton lost to a duel with Burr in 1804.
Even though most if not all were from the wealthy ruling class, some wanted us to be free and independent more than others.
Some links with Federal Reserve info.

http://www.apfn.org/APFN/fed_reserve.htm

http://www.flyingeaglegold.com/gold_articles.php?aid=9

[Amskeptic]

To me the biggest problem, the worst

How do you suggest that we pry the spoils from the clutching fists of the status-quo?
Colin

[steve74baywin]

To me the biggest problem, the worst

How do you suggest that we pry the spoils from the clutching fists of the status-quo?
Colin

Interesting question. Your not asking "How do we put an end to the fed?", which I started to answer and will post at the end, but you asked. "How do pry the spoils from the clutching fist of the status-quo?" Which could be needed to ever end the fed.
If I understand your question your saying how do we ever get all those people who greatly benifit from this arrangement to give it up.

I think I can stick with the response I was going with.

Something along these lines.
1) Knowledge, making people aware. More people must know before we can see change and make a difference.
2) Then we can have enough people in office to make the change.
3) Stop borrowing and even perhaps reduce consuming stuff from a far. (they gain by people borrowing and using their money)
4) At some point with enough people knowing we could just stop paying the income tax, even before we got enough people elected that know.

[Velokid1]

That would be nice and tidy but why would be any different from any other country/culture going back thousands of years? The only thing that works to snap the wealthy out of their self-congratulatory stupor is to YANK them out of it, which usually comes in the form of actions that, prior to them enjoying widespread support by the masses, are labeled as "violent" or even "terrorism." The wealthy don't willingly give up their stranglehold. They must be forced, physically, by mobs of pissed off working class and poor people who have finally grown some balls.

[steve74baywin]

That would be nice and tidy but why would be any different from any other country/culture going back thousands of years? The only thing that works to snap the wealthy out of their self-congratulatory stupor is to YANK them out of it, which usually comes in the form of actions that, prior to them enjoying widespread support by the masses, are labeled as "violent" or even "terrorism." The wealthy don't willingly give up their stranglehold. They must be forced, physically, by mobs of pissed off working class and poor people who have finally grown some balls.

I think there is power in numbers. The system they enjoy now works for them for several reasons. Mostly though because we allow it. We comply. Voluntary non compliance by enough people would shut down their game.
It is different now than thousands of years ago. Back then people were ruled by a more visibly means.
They whipped the people in Egyptian times, or in other times they allowed them certain pieces of land within the kingdom. The people new of the kingdom walls. The system today is a clever trickery system.
Most people don't see how they are controlled and manipulated. All it would take is numbers.
I also think non violence is the answer. Any change like in the past that comes about via violence is probably going to fail, becuase if the people use violence that is an indication that enough people don't understand enough, hence we will need to do it again, and yet again. Spreading this knowledge is probably the only long range solution of value.
No force to bring about your desire
Power in numbers
Let love reign instead of fear.

[Velokid1]

I admit to being committed to non-violence on a personal level, in my personal life. But I also confess to sometimes having weak faith in the idea that non-violent action will shift the paradigm that exists where profit is worshipped and people are neglected. I am saddened by that but at the same time my own practice of non-violence in my life brings me great joy and I believe it enriches the lives of those around me, most importantly my wife and kids.

I'll also add that non-violence isn't an end state; it's an intention and a process. It's a practice. I fail every day at being non-violent, in one way or another. And every day I renew my commitment to being better. That's my disclaimer to anyone who feels inclined to search my old IAC posts for examples of the times I have faltered. Happens every day.



Your comparison to Egypt thousands of years ago is interesting, but you were forced to go back pretty darn far to find a society that made your point. There are many contemporary examples of the struggle of the poor under the rich in a system rigged by the latter.

I also think that while there is a lot of truth in your mantra of "everyone is under a spell", your own thinking is also heavily colored by your work as a hypnotherapist. I think that filter of yours (your own "spell" you're under) places an excessive amount of importance on the idea of subconscious thought being beaten back in favor of logic and reason, and not enough importance on the ways that emotion and intuition serve us. It's not something I want to get into a debate over even though it's such a splendidly rich subject, so let my point just be this: We are all under our own spell, including you, Steve-O.

[Velokid1]

Another little thought here: I do think things will change. I'm one of those hippie dippy types who can see a future that is better. But I think it will be born from a future that is worse.

The other night I saw a South African artist perform named Vusi Mahlasela. I'd say he's half musician, half sage. He's using his music to speak to people about embracing Love and Forgiveness. Anyway, at one point between songs he was talking about the inequity of wealth worldwide and he asked everyone in the audience to think not in terms of GRABBING anything from the wealthy but instead to think in terms of SHOWING the wealthy, TEACHING them, to share what they enjoy.

Same kind of thing you touched on in your post, Steve, and I think it's very true. There's a time and place for everything, of course.

You will take that line of thought to a different place than I do, though. You will say, "yes, deregulate and allow the wealthy and the corporations to voluntarily help everyone out!" But I'm not about to drop the reigns on them and have faith that they will instantly (or any time soon) have a change of heart and suddenly not be able to stomach watching the lower and middle classes suffer. They wouldn't, and many lives would be devastated and lost while we stood by waiting for them to have some awakening of the soul.

That awakening will be a process, not a light switch. During that process, the little people need to be protected. What Ron Paul wants to bring to us is a light switch and the results would be catastrophic.

[BumbleBus]

1) Knowledge, making people aware. More people must know before we can see change and make a difference.

That doesn't work for a society in which ignorance is bliss. Like the United States. The average citizen just doesn't give a shit. Sad, but true.

[Amskeptic]

Like the United States. The average citizen just doesn't give a shit. Sad, but true.

I am not going to speak for the "average American". I couldn't tell you who that is, couldn't point them out in a shopping mall.

I know we all came from childhood, I remember my own having moments of great wonder and curiosity and a desire to make things better, an upwelling from a place that naturally knew justice and injustice alike. That fierce sense of justice/injustice got knocked down a few pegs along the way, for some it ends in the dead end of not giving a shit. Fortunately, children are still being born, when young they still get enraged when you snatch their cookie away, when older, they still push back against local injustices in the home and in school, when at the threshhold of adulthood, they may yet have a sense of purpose towards the human family.

The inequity we must tame will not likely submit to legislated equalization efforts. But raising a generation of human children who become adults who do not need to hoard insane amounts of loot ... I think we can do that.
Colin

[BumbleBus]

But raising a generation of human children who become adults who do not need to hoard insane amounts of loot ... I think we can do that.

I sincerely hope you're right! Wouldn't that be great.

[Lanval]

But raising a generation of human children who become adults who do not need to hoard insane amounts of loot ... I think we can do that.
Colin

So long as our society values investment bankers in the millions, while teachers are relegated to tens of thousands, we will not.

Lest you think this is about getting more money for teachers, the problem begins at home, always. We pay investment bankers such money because that is what the majority of citizens value. They tell their kids that education is a trick, that teachers are overpaid and underworked, and don't deserve the money they get already.

Only when the people broadly change their values will this happen; the teacher/pay issue is on a symptom of the problem.

Mike

[Velokid1]

The inequity we must tame will not likely submit to legislated equalization efforts. But raising a generation of human children who become adults who do not need to hoard insane amounts of loot ... I think we can do that.
Colin

It's going well in our house. I'm not sure I can do much more than that, nor do I feel any obligation to. We live a rich, joyful, adventurous life with what little financial means we have. Many people have far less in their wallets and many have far more. My kids are aware of that and already do a good job of both aspiring for more AND taking care of those who have less.

I have a snowball's chance of influencing the wealthy elite, but we do alright with influencing our own children. I'm really proud of them.

[dingo]

The inequity we must tame will not likely submit to legislated equalization efforts. But raising a generation of human children who become adults who do not need to hoard insane amounts of loot ... I think we can do that.
Colin

It's going well in our house. I'm not sure I can do much more than that, nor do I feel any obligation to. We live a rich, joyful, adventurous life with what little financial means we have. Many people have far less in their wallets and many have far more. My kids are aware of that and already do a good job of both aspiring for more AND taking care of those who have less.

I have a snowball's chance of influencing the wealthy elite, but we do alright with influencing our own children. I'm really proud of them.

i heard Michael Moore, responding to a question about how to change the 'status quo', say something like ' one person doing one big thing will have less effect than if everyone did one small thing' i.e. even small localized actions when added up en masse trumps a single action by a president....

[dingo]

But raising a generation of human children who become adults who do not need to hoard insane amounts of loot ... I think we can do that.
Colin

So long as our society values investment bankers in the millions, while teachers are relegated to tens of thousands, we will not.

Lest you think this is about getting more money for teachers, the problem begins at home, always. We pay investment bankers such money because that is what the majority of citizens value. They tell their kids that education is a trick, that teachers are overpaid and underworked, and don't deserve the money they get already.

Only when the people broadly change their values will this happen; the teacher/pay issue is on a symptom of the problem.

Mike

I agree with that. Our personally held values ripple outward, and en masse, form the very infrastructure of society that we then try to grapple with...

[steve74baywin]

I'm mostly in agreement with all.

Your comparison to Egypt thousands of years ago is interesting, but you were forced to go back pretty darn far to find a society that made your point.

I only went back that far for ease, I didn't want to take the time to use the correct phrase for some of the system prior to 1776. Most were under a king/monarch, but they have various names.

I think that filter of yours (your own "spell" you're under) places an excessive amount of importance on the idea of subconscious thought being beaten back in favor of logic and reason, and not enough importance on the ways that emotion and intuition serve us.

No doubt I can be affected too. I don't totally disregard emotions, it's just that ideas get connected with emotions and making decision based on them instead of logic and reason is a huge problem when that is done for some of topics we discuss on here. IE, For the political things we discuss logic is good, emotion is bad.

You will take that line of thought to a different place than I do, though. You will say, "yes, deregulate and allow the wealthy and the corporations to voluntarily help everyone out!"
many lives would be devastated and lost while we stood by waiting for them to have some awakening of the sou

I think our difference stems more from this. I don't feel the gov rules and regulations help the people nearly as much as you think they do. I think they help the wealthy more. I also see where people on a local level like yourself could help your neighbor.
The Federal Reserve Bank mentioned in this thread is an example of government and regulations helping the wealthy and hurting the middle class.

That awakening will be a process, not a light switch. During that process, the little people need to be protected. What Ron Paul wants to bring to us is a light switch and the results would be catastrophic.

That is the whole thing, it will be a process. It won't take one man like a Ron Paul, it will take many of us knowing enough to get enough congressman and Senators elected. Ron Paul doesn't advocate making changes like a light switch, more like a fading dimmer.

So long as our society values investment bankers in the millions, while teachers are relegated to tens of thousands, we will not.

Lest you think this is about getting more money for teachers, the problem begins at home, always. We pay investment bankers such money because that is what the majority of citizens value. They tell their kids that education is a trick, that teachers are overpaid and underworked, and don't deserve the money they get already.

Only when the people broadly change their values will this happen; the teacher/pay issue is on a symptom of the problem.

Mike

Those that our kids spend so much of their day with should be of high value or valued highly, no doubt.
I want to thank you for being a teacher Mike.
It almost looked like one of my sons was going to be teacher, I was happy with that, I thought it a noble career.
I'm not going to get into my thoughts on what should change in education ATT, that might be a good topic for another thread though?

That doesn't work for a society in which ignorance is bliss. Like the United States. The average citizen just doesn't give a shit. Sad, but true.

There are times it seems hopeless and then at times I have a lot of hope.?!?!

But raising a generation of human children who become adults who do not need to hoard insane amounts of loot ... I think we can do that.

I sincerely hope you're right! Wouldn't that be great.

DITTO

' one person doing one big thing will have less effect than if everyone did one small thing' i.e. even small localized actions when added up en masse trumps a single action by a president....

Sounds good to me.


If you haven't seen this already, I posted it elsewhere. I think it does a good job at simplifying money, banking and the Federal Reserve. 30 min cartoon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGk5ioEXlIM