I love the tea party, they kill me

[glasseye]

"Keep Your Damned Government Hands Off My Medicare."

[Velokid1]

All of this is absolutely worthdiscussing since it's our unfortunate reality, but it really pisses me off that the TRUE problem is that medical treatment is 5x more expensive than it rightfully should be. The industry has figured out a way of forcin us to pay outrageous prices via a health insurance system that is intentionally convoluted. THAT is the true smokescreen, is it not?

[ruckman101]

Health care in the USA is the height of corporate blackmail subsidized by our tax dollars. My mind reels at the obscenity of the greed our lives are held hostage to.


neal

[steve74baywin]

So many different aspects on this one I can't possible cover them all, but I am going to try.
The media's actions on this is a good example of how they attempt to shape and mold the minds and the discussion. It is a classic example.

It has already been mentioned that the right questions aren't asked.

Why is it so expensive?
Is it right to and who should be "forced to pay" for someone else's mishaps?

I feel insurance is one of the biggest problems. I feel people have been fear mongered into desiring insurance. I feel insurance has raised the cost.
I also think too many rules and regulations have driven up the cost.
Too many lawsuits also. And those two are also due to fear.
A classic case for "get the government out of the way".

I do think fear has played a big part in this getting all messed up.
Something has been playing on the fears and emotions of people.
It was once said "As sure as you know a man is living, you know he will die".
Why spend all this time worrying about "insurance" for medical care.
The cost to make sure everyone is given all the care they need, and all the help they can get to keep them alive as long as possible using whatever knowledge we currently have, and to get every human alive to participate in this seems to be a great task, almost impossible. It seems like it would consume such a large portion of our "living" time on this planet, when that time should be considered valuable. To give up so much of that time to prolong the inevitable, death, seems silly. Especially in a country where so many claim to be of a religion that promises such a wonderful life after death.

As Ron Paul said, before the 70's most communities didn't turn away someone who needed care to stay alive. Just as most of us humans on this forum wouldn't let someone die if it was within our means to keep them alive, as long as we didn't die in the process. Even a total stranger or someone you didn't really like too much you wouldn't let die if it was within your means to keep them alive.
If you take the big far away government entity out of the picture, you would have the people (people like us) that would be in the communities and making up the facilities that we go to for care, and most of them would do what they could. If the laws, rules, ability to sue over every little thing didn't exist, they would do what they could to help anyone. Keep the power local, then you will actually have power.

[Randy in Maine]

The sad part about this is that the US currently spends 1/2 of what the total world spends on healthcare and what we get is not very good. I think Bulgaria has a longer life expectancy than we do.

The Health Care Reform that passed a couple of years ago is doomed to failure. Everyone knew that when it passed, everyone still kows that. When it all does "go bad" in a few years, the only step to go to will be for universal coverage single payer. With almost 1/6th of our population without coverage and with health care being the main thing that is bankrupting the states, there are really no viable options other than universal coverage single payer.

There is plenty of blame to go around including the AMA, the trial lawyers, the med schools, mediacl fraud, nursing schools and others. Blaming someone doesn't help, but coming up with a workable solution will.

Yes Ron Paul is as wrong about healthcare as he is wrong about so many other things. Fortunately he could only get elected in Texas where the bar is set pretty low.

[poptop tom]

Randy,

I'm curious how nursing schools are part of the problem. Having my girlfriend in her last year of nursing school, I'd
like to know what you mean.

Thanks,
Tom

[Randy in Maine]

The medical/dental/and nursing schools are all too small to generate the number of qualified people we need. They sometimes look at themselves as a "country club" and like to keep the number of students low for various financial reasons. We also need more nurse practioners for a lot of the "Monday through Friday" things, as opposed to doctors that are in short supply in number and in the time they spend with you.

Not only should they be at least 10% larger over a period of 5 years, the Feds should encourage all health care professionals to work in under served areas of the country (ever been to an Indian Reservation or small town America) for a partial payback of some of the huge money it costs to go to school anymore.

I will go one step further and say that nurses really need to be treated as "a player" in the total health care system. Even though they know more about the patient than about anyone, doctors and hospitals treat them more like watresses, than the professionals they are. Their input is important to better health care.

We can do better.

[poptop tom]

The medical/dental/and nursing schools are all too small to generate the number of qualified people we need. They sometimes look at themselves as a "country club" and like to keep the number of students low for various financial reasons. We also need more nurse practioners for a lot of the "Monday through Friday" things, as opposed to doctors that are in short supply in number and in the time they spend with you.

Not only should they be at least 10% larger over a period of 5 years, the Feds should encourage all health care professionals to work in under served areas of the country (ever been to an Indian Reservation or small town America) for a partial payback of some of the huge money it costs to go to school anymore.

I will go one step further and say that nurses really need to be treated as "a player" in the total health care system. Even though they know more about the patient than about anyone, doctors and hospitals treat them more like watresses, than the professionals they are. Their input is important to better health care.

We can do better.

It's odd. My girlfriend is studying to be an RN. She was at Ivy Tech (public institution)for a year and a half. Decent program. Around 100+ trying to get into the actual nursing program itself. She was forced to take a bunch of prerequisite classes. Those classes (grade average), were graded into a score along with a standardized test. The standardized test was a joke. She received an 84% on that test. In all of the classes, she had all A's and one B. There was so much competition, she wasn't accepted. People with even higher scores were also turned away.
Her and I were both ticked off about that. She wasted a year and half at that school with not much to show for it, other the classes were able to be transferred to the private school she is at now. Tuition costs her more, but the school is better. Smaller classroom sizes, better overall training.
She'll be finished in the spring.
You are correct. Nurses know more, and are required to know more than a general practitioner does.

She's considered nurse practitioner, but that would require another two years of schooling.

Of course, Ivy Tech never mentioned the difficulty in getting into the actual nursing program. They simply took as many peoples' hard earned money as could, before breaking that news to them.

[steve74baywin]

Here we go, good timing. This just came across my FB.
Perhaps some of the questions that should be asked are asked here.

John Stossel and the Case for Free Market Health Care (Part 1 of 5)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzm5jhguYJ0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eF6ImsI7WQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TToM4lR2uoQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sj_LGM8aiwY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36flUrWQLEI
If you don't want to see the whole thing skip to the last one.

[Amskeptic]

How Obama went from supporting single payer during the campaign to ditching it afterwards, IMHO is one of his greatest failings in my eyes.

I agree. It is such a damn shame.
Colin

[RussellK]

Unfortunately single payer was a non starter. Some good has come from the Obama plan but for the most part it looks like a gift to the providers and insurance companies. The saddest thing is I don't see us ever returning to the discussion.

[Amskeptic]

All of this is absolutely worthdiscussing since it's our unfortunate reality, but it really pisses me off that the TRUE problem is that medical treatment is 5x more expensive than it rightfully should be. The industry has figured out a way of forcin us to pay outrageous prices via a health insurance system that is intentionally convoluted. THAT is the true smokescreen, is it not?

=D> Yes. =D>