The "Surge"

[RussellK]

my agenda is to have tons of sex before I die

If only Dubya had made this his........ =D> You know "Make Love Not War"

[steve74baywin]

Knowing a person's agenda doesn't do much in the way of explaining their motives or their objective.

Let's use a simplified example:

Let's say that my agenda is to have tons of sex before I die.
Last week I decided to buy a black coffee table instead of a brown one.
Why did I choose black over brown?

Not because my agenda is to have tons of sex before I die. Even though my agenda hadn't changed, it still doesn't explain my preference for black furniture over brown.

So if you think the question, "What's the objective in Iraq?" is a silly question because you are of the opinion that it is answered by the fact that the people running the country have an agenda to be rich and powerful, you'll have to forgive me if I ask for a little more substance than that.

Let's first look at your example,,,that is similar to me saying Bush went to Texas to vacation,,,How does that tie into my phrase? Well, not everything Bush does is for his agenda,,,,
Your sex story,,,perhaps if you were taking a female coworker to the other side of town for an important meeting, you had no time to spare, very important you two are there.... You stop by your house and spend 30 minutes,,,you say you stopped by there cause it's on the way, but it is not on the way.... No one can figure out why on earth you went out of your way to your house and wasted 30 minutes when you had no time to spare to get to this important meeting............If someone leaked that you had an agenda to have tons of sex before you died,,,,some people might start to figure out why you did something that previously made no sense at all. They might start to ask the right questions.

The greater debate as to why we went to Iraq and why we are there should be explained more thoroughly than by just using my phrase, but in many cases we are not discussing the whole Iraq war thing,,,,we are discussing one aspect, move or decision. I think this thread fits into that,,,IE,,,not the whole "Why we went to Iraq" thing,,,but on one decision about Iraq,,,and we are trying to figure out why what we think is the most logical thing is not being done,,,well, that's where I think my phrase fits in nicely.
In other words in case I'm not understood....
If we need to or want to explain to someone how the war is all wrong from the get go, we might need to explain alot.... I think we have done that in other post......But if we are talking about one aspect,,,decision, vote and we can't figure out why they appear to be so much dumber than us,,,I think my phrase works...
You know what is interesting,,,taking the time to tell me about my phrase has taken more away from the discussion at hand than my phrase every would have..... My phrase could have been used to further spurn some good talks about why we are doing what we are doing there.

Edited to add, your input is always welcome,,,even if it doesn't seem that way.....Perhaps I will adjust my replies somewhat.

[RussellK]

Perhaps I will adjust my replies somewhat.

Steve- I can only speak for myself but I don't see why you need to adjust anything. Your replies are thoughtful and provide an insight into why you feel the way you do. I enjoy the exchange. I hope you do too.

[Velokid1]

I appreciate it, too, Steve. And trust me, I'm not offended at all. I'm not sure what it would take for someone to offend me "cyberly."

I've learned to recognize and steer clear of circular debates, though, and it seems we're having one and I'm feeling a bit too pooped right now to carry on.

There are indeed questions that the agenda statement would answer. There are many others that are related to the agenda and yet not explained by the agenda.

I'm off to puff some wackyweed and build bedroom furniture.

[steve74baywin]

I appreciate it, too, Steve. And trust me, I'm not offended at all. I'm not sure what it would take for someone to offend me "cyberly."

I've learned to recognize and steer clear of circular debates, though, and it seems we're having one and I'm feeling a bit too pooped right now to carry on.

There are indeed questions that the agenda statement would answer. There are many others that are related to the agenda and yet not explained by the agenda.

I'm off to puff some wackyweed and build bedroom furniture.

I agree on the circular thing.....Perhaps my next statement contradicts my last,,,not sure....But if you could bring up some examples of things this admin did that many people have talked about cause it doesn't make sense or is stupid and I will see if my phrase fits....To me it seems to fit in all of them so far,,,at least the ones I know of.

Another one comes to mind to me,,,the FISA court thing.....Georgie boy not wanting to go to FISA,,,all he had to do was tell them within days after, this shouldn't hinder the war on terror at all, many people couldn't figure out why they chose to break the law........Well, they wanted to get away with spying on more than terrorist,,,people that they knew FISA wouldn't allow.....Why is this,,,there agenda is to control, dominate and get rich. You need to know what your people are up to to control them.

[Amskeptic]

if you could bring up some examples of things this admin did that many people have talked about cause it doesn't make sense or is stupid and I will see if my phrase fits....To me it seems to fit in all of them so far,,,at least the ones I know of.

I'd like to read Cheney's 1996 "Realpolitik" analysis of the Middle East vis a vis Western Energy Requirements. (New York Review of Books The Fatal Touch) You'll see the justification for forcible seizure of the oil fields. A war just waiting for an excuse. And you know the current administration went through a lot of excuses to justify this Iraq incursion. A war just itching to happen.

[twinfalls]

Conspiracy at the white house ?
That's more simple.
They have played, too much, Warcraft II, enjoying easy levels with oil warfare.
And, they did not read the disclaimer that says; Video games can rot your mind, stay with booze for liver rot".

[steve74baywin]

I'd like to read Cheney's 1996 "Realpolitik" analysis of the Middle East vis a vis Western Energy Requirements. (New York Review of Books The Fatal Touch) You'll see the justification for forcible seizure of the oil fields. A war just waiting for an excuse. And you know the current administration went through a lot of excuses to justify this Iraq incursion. A war just itching to happen.

This brings up another thought I had a few months back....
You know how there is so much talk about visualizing your goals and dreams,,,,focusing on something is what is needed to have it come to pass.....
Well, if someone wanted to give these cronies the benefit of doubt they could at least see this----How there vision and focus for so many years,,,,and published in books like the above and the PNAC document,,,,they were so focused on it,,,they only saw and used that which would bring there dream to reality.....Sounds like some motivational goal setting stuff,,,..So, the question is,,,did they desire this so much that it came to pass?

[glasseye]

(New York Review of Books The Fatal Touch)

A most excellent read. When Cheney visited Canada's oil fields last summer, I was nearly apoplectic.

In two years, the next administration's first act should be to confiscate the passports of those crims.

[Amskeptic]

the question is,,,did they desire this so much that it came to pass?

Yes.
Colin
(but thankfully Machiavellian desires self-destruct every time due to Napoleonic fever )

[steve74baywin]

Perhaps I will adjust my replies somewhat.

Steve- I can only speak for myself but I don't see why you need to adjust anything. Your replies are thoughtful and provide an insight into why you feel the way you do. I enjoy the exchange. I hope you do too.

I appreciate it, too, Steve. And trust me, I'm not offended at all. I'm not sure what it would take for someone to offend me "cyberly."

I've learned to recognize and steer clear of circular debates, though, and it seems we're having one and I'm feeling a bit too pooped right now to carry on.

There are indeed questions that the agenda statement would answer. There are many others that are related to the agenda and yet not explained by the agenda.

I'm off to puff some wackyweed and build bedroom furniture.

Wow, a walk down memory lane.
If you can't tell I'm being lazy or I'm bored. Something got me looking at post from way back and I got a kick out of this one. From early 2007

Six years later and I am still apologetic, sometimes for no reason, and sometimes justly.

Edited to correct, 4.5 years, not 6 years.