WikiLeaks

glasseye · Post by **glasseye** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 8:56 pm

Two long, yet insightful essays on Wikileaks.

Jaron Lanier
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/a ... aks/68217/

Bruce Sterling
http://www.webstock.org.nz/blog/2010/the-blast-shack/

MeyerII · Post by **MeyerII** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:24 am

RussellK wrote:
ruckman101 wrote:Assange doesn't call himself a journalist, but rather an "Information Activist".

neal
An information activist?. How charming. He gave himself a name. Releasing documents many without any context, done without apparent consideration of potentially negative outcomes makes me think of a very different name. Perhaps there is one item where I might agree with him. He isn't a journalist. A trade that requires intellect and talent.

Damn straight, skippy. I'm firmly in the 'nay' category myself.

Do I believe that we need to stop this by any means necessary? Hell no. I think that we need to do whatever the hell it was that we did back in the Cold War era to prevent this kind of thing from happening in the first place.

But we can't seem to do that, can we? Its all been farmed out to Halliburton, or whatever they are calling themselves these days. In case anybody missed the show, this was the warning right here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY

And the text - READ IT AGAIN:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/ike.htm

In case there is any question about it, I am a Hunter S. Thompson liberal. I believe in the sanctity of speech, but I also appreciate the part that well-trained and well-placed spooks have played in history. And the only way you can successfully work spooks is if you can control the intelligence once its gathered.

The wikileaks asshole goes too far, and isn't dealing with the context or the consequences.

What we NEED is somebody like Bob Woodward to handle whatever story there might be. But since we've effectively managed to gut the fourth estate along with pretty much everything else that was once good about this country, it is no surprise that we've reached this juncture.

But hell, we're supposedly overtaxed, right? So let's find even less competent people to run things at street level, yeah?

vdubyah73 · Post by **vdubyah73** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 12:57 pm

wow Meyer, I agree!

dingo · Post by **dingo** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:04 pm

I believe in the sanctity of speech, but I also appreciate the part that well-trained and well-placed spooks have played in history. And the only way you can successfully work spooks is if you can control the intelligence once its gathered.

thats the same old tired excuse for keeping the public inebriated on shallow 'patriotic' propaganda

Adventurewagen · Post by **Adventurewagen** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:23 pm

OMG. Can this get blown anymore out of proportion? I feel like I'm watching toddlers argue over a toy... (not you guys in the thread, but the politicians, news people, etc).

I believe in free speech and that some things are better left out of public eye but if you can't keep it a secret then it's not Wikileaks fault for blabbing all about it.

The government and our politicians are just pissed because they were too fucking stupid to have this stuff locked up tight enough. I mean seriously... We live in a digital age where information is spread instantly around the world. If you need something to be secret then it better be kept under lock and key and if it's not then it's your own damn fault.

The only reason it's a big deal is because some regular guy (instead of an entire government) happened to get ahold of some juicy material and share it with the world in a new medium that happened to get more attention that some people wanted.

What's really sad is when the US government starts trying to censor this stuff. No matter what happens it just shows that being paranoid about what I do and say on the internet is not entirely over the top ;)

ruckman101 · Post by **ruckman101** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:49 pm

I'm sure that as more and more of the cables are released, it will become clearer and clearer that our government is working tirelessly to spread freedom and democracy around the world. Right?

Not exposing the cudgeling and strong-arm tactics to secure the natural resources of other countries for our corporations. Right? Right?

neal

MeyerII · Post by **MeyerII** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:09 pm

ruckman101 wrote:I'm sure that as more and more of the cables are released, it will become clearer and clearer that our government is working tirelessly to spread freedom and democracy around the world. Right?

Not exposing the cudgeling and strong-arm tactics to secure the natural resources of other countries for our corporations. Right? Right?

neal

I don't think that anybody is arguing that. But just printing raw intelligence with no understanding of its impact is irresponsible. Just like the government letting that stuff get out.

The way that the Watergate break-in was exposed was a great example of how media can responsibly watchdog the government. What the Wikileaks guy is doing is completely indescriminate and he has absolutely no idea of what he's doing.

Post by **Amskeptic** » Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:15 am

MeyerII wrote:
ruckman101 wrote:I'm sure that as more and more of the cables are released, it will become clearer and clearer that our government is working tirelessly to spread freedom and democracy around the world. Right?

Not exposing the cudgeling and strong-arm tactics to secure the natural resources of other countries for our corporations. Right? Right?

neal
I don't think that anybody is arguing that. But just printing raw intelligence with no understanding of its impact is irresponsible. Just like the government letting that stuff get out.

The way that the Watergate break-in was exposed was a great example of how media can responsibly watchdog the government. What the Wikileaks guy is doing is completely indescriminate and he has absolutely no idea of what he's doing.

I am not so sure. I haven't seen anything in any of these leaks that has any material consequence in furthering our nation's highest ideals. I haven't met a noble government secret.
Colin

ruckman101 · Post by **ruckman101** » Sat Dec 25, 2010 2:42 am

A quarter million cables. The hammer over the head. Blackmail! Are you on the naughty or nice list?

Since only a minor percentage of that quarter mil figure has currently been released, that would challenge the data dumping with no discrimination.

In my opinion, the dribble of the potential data dump is slowed by the vetting process doing it's best to purge those who's lives would truly be at risk from the information released.

Perhaps not "journalism" in an old school definition, but still rife with editorial decision of what's scoured, relevant and releasable. Oh and keep legal council.

neal

glasseye · Post by **glasseye** » Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:16 am

Amskeptic wrote:... I haven't seen anything in any of these leaks that has any material consequence in furthering our nation's highest ideals. I haven't met a noble government secret.
Colin

Not even the Obama adminstration's threatening of the Spanish with dire consequences if they proceeded with charging Cheney with using torture?

Is this not a violation of nearly every thing America says it stands for?

ruckman101 · Post by **ruckman101** » Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:57 pm

Curious how media no longer refers to WikiLeaks as a whistleblower.

neal

Post by **Amskeptic** » Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:36 pm

ruckman101 wrote:Curious how media no longer refers to WikiLeaks as a whistleblower.
neal

The Conventional Wisdom current is a swift one, I prefer to call it an undertow.
Colin

twinfalls · Post by **twinfalls** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:50 am

glasseye wrote:
Amskeptic wrote:... I haven't seen anything in any of these leaks that has any material consequence in furthering our nation's highest ideals. I haven't met a noble government secret.
Colin
Not even the Obama adminstration's threatening of the Spanish with dire consequences if they proceeded with charging Cheney with using torture?

Is this not a violation of nearly every thing America says it stands for?

America stands against torture on its own land.

That is why they subcontract it to other countries. Using airports of other countries to move prisoners without their consent ( both).
When Condoleeza Rice was asked about it on a visit in Paris, she answered this was not true, however this was actually a well proven fact.

glasseye · Post by **glasseye** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:58 am

twinfalls wrote: When Condoleeza Rice was asked about it on a visit in Paris, she answered this was not true, however this was actually a well proven fact.

I'm surprised that Rice visited Paris. In fact, I'm surprised that she or any of the neo-cons have the courage to travel outside the US.

twinfalls · Post by **twinfalls** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:46 am

glasseye wrote:
twinfalls wrote: When Condoleeza Rice was asked about it on a visit in Paris, she answered this was not true, however this was actually a well proven fact.
I'm surprised that Rice visited Paris. In fact, I'm surprised that she or any of the neo-cons have the courage to travel outside the US.

This was june 24 25 2007:
http://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/fr/pays-z ... 51043.html
This was at the time of the Darfur crisis.

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WikiLeaks

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